Welcome to this week's episode of The Maintainers, where today’s special guest is John Davis, the Vice President at American Wood Fibers (AWF). John, boasting an impressive work history, started working on engines at the age of 10 and later managed an entire campus consisting of more than 40 buildings at Sun Microsystems. Today, he plays a significant role at AWF, the industry leader in wood shavings, wood flour, and pet bedding products.
Welcome to this week's episode of The Maintainers, where today’s special guest is John Davis, the Vice President at American Wood Fibers (AWF). John, boasting an impressive work history, started working on engines at the age of 10 and later managed an entire campus consisting of more than 40 buildings at Sun Microsystems. Today, he plays a significant role at AWF, the industry leader in wood shavings, wood flour, and pet bedding products.
An important focus of the discussion is John's experience in the implementation and management of automation. He shares valuable insights on how initiating change to automate operations can be met with resistance due to differing perspectives on immediate costs and technical difficulties. However, John asserts that getting everyone on the same page before the project starts is crucial. To do this, an effective communication strategy for different groups, from the CFO to the operations manager, is necessary.
When discussing the maintenance aspect, the conversation delves into the complexities faced in maintaining factories when equipment uptime is paramount. John emphasizes that better utilization of technology -- for tracking, monitoring, and effectively responding to machinery issues -- is crucial. The roles of performance monitoring and predictive analysis in managing maintenance are highlighted. These facets, coupled with an emphasis on safety protocols, can significantly impact the efficiency and productivity of factory operations.
John's advice for listeners seeking to improve their maintenance and manufacturing processes is clear. Embrace the developments in AI and technology. Keeping up with the latest technologies and integrating them into daily operations can make jobs more appealing and retain employees, which is a common challenge across industries. Additionally, John's experiences underscore the importance of being adaptable in the face of technological advancements and shifting industry landscapes.
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Guest Bio
John Davis, a seasoned professional in the Maintenance industry, has amassed a wealth of knowledge and experience over his illustrious career. Serving as the Vice President at American Wood Fibers, Davis has navigated complex projects and contributed significantly to the company's impressive reputation. Rooted in hands-on experience dating back to his early childhood, Davis has always demonstrated a knack for handling machinery and understanding the mechanics of various devices.
Davis's journey to the VP role at American Wood Fibers has been an exemplary arc of continuous learning and improvement. Beginning his career in the maintenance sector at Sun Microsystems, he dabbled in a variety of roles ranging from HVAC electrical systems to automation projects. His exceptional ability to ramp up quickly in diverse roles got him tasked with automating the entire campus at Sun Microsystems. Davis's time at Sun Microsystems served as a catalyst for future leadership roles, setting him on a path to later join American Wood Fibers as Vice President.
Equally enthusiastic about embracing new technologies as he is about mechanical engineering, John Davis has successfully spearheaded change management in his organization, driven significant automation projects, and, above all, fostered an environment that emphasizes safety and efficiency. Always receptive to new ideas, he is known to integrate innovative solutions such as AI-powered predictive maintenance software into everyday processes, heralding a new era in the maintenance industry.
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Guest Quote
"As we find new technologies, better ways of doing things, better equipment, better monitoring, we take advantage of that. And we try to carry that over to all of our facilities. We try to stay on the cutting edge of what's available out there." – John Davis
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Time Stamps
*(01:26) Opening Icebreaker
*(01:55) John's background
*(04:13) Starting college at the age of 15
*(07:36) Segment 01: The Maintainer Mashup
*(08:07) How AWF creates their products
*(10:09) Staying safe while scaling your manufacturing
*(12:14) What new technologies AWF has implemented into their operations
*(14:24) Segment 02: What's in Your Toolkit?
*(14:41) Overcoming the challenge of change
*(20:04) Segment 03: The Future of Factories
*(21:16) Attracting younger talent with the latest innovations
*(24:49) Why AWF chose to partner with Tractian
*(28:17) Advice for those new to the industry
*(31:12) Segment 04: Fix It Funnies
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Links
[00:00:00] John Davis: Maintenance. Maybe we
[00:00:04] David Lee: should call it maintenance. I'll fix it. I'm gonna fix
[00:00:07] John Davis: it. Concentrated. Maintain it. Maintain control. Maintenance complete. This
[00:00:15] David Lee: is The Maintainers, a Bluecap Community Podcast. My name is David Lee, director of traction and your host for The Maintainers
[00:00:21] Jake Hall: Show. And I'm Jake Hall, the Manufacturing Millennial.
[00:00:25] Jake Hall: On today's episode, we're joined by John Davis, Vice President at American Wood Fibers. John has an incredible story to tell going back decades, when he was 10 years old, he was working on engines as a kid. He worked on the early years of automation at Sun Microsystems, where he managed an entire campus consisting of more than 40 buildings.
[00:00:45] Jake Hall: And we'll learn more about his journey to where he is today as the VP of AWF. in this conversation. But first, our word from our sponsors.
[00:00:54] Voiceover: This podcast is brought to you by Traction. Traction offers streamlined hardware and software solutions designed to make maintenance more reliable and profitable.
[00:01:04] Voiceover: Their AI powered condition monitoring and asset management solution predicts machine failures and unplanned downtime, allowing clients to save an average of 10 million every trimester. It's artificial intelligence quarterbacking your maintenance.
[00:01:21] Jake Hall: Well, thanks for joining us today, John. How are
[00:01:23] John Davis: you doing today?
[00:01:23] John Davis: Great. I appreciate the invite. So to kick things
[00:01:26] Jake Hall: off, what's some of the favorite winter activities that you like to do to, um, you know, intro yourself to
[00:01:31] John Davis: this audience? Sure. I'm not sure they're my favorite, but they're the necessities of, uh Moving snow from where I don't want it to, uh, another place. So there's, uh, there's plenty of that going on already.
[00:01:43] John Davis: Awesome.
[00:01:44] David Lee: John, tell us a little bit about your background and how you got started into the industry, because obviously we know you have a lot of experience. You've had a lot of cool projects. So, uh, get us a little bit more acquainted with you.
[00:01:55] John Davis: Yeah. So, um, as I mentioned earlier, I did cut my teeth at Sun Microsystems.
[00:02:00] John Davis: I was pretty young, um, when I started working there. I had an opportunity to, you know, do the sort of things that you would in, in sort of the, in the maintenance area, general maintenance. Um, but then I quickly got into, um, HVAC electrical, as in into automation. At one point I was tasked with automating the entire campus.
[00:02:18] John Davis: And, um, Sun, you know, back in the mid, late 80s was growing at about 50 percent a quarter. So extreme growth, um, buying buildings, leasing buildings, which means just bringing on massive amounts of equipment. So, you know, the group that I was in was tasked with, you know, certainly taking that equipment on and ensuring, you know, it's uptime was at a very high level.
[00:02:43] John Davis: So the microsystem campus in Mountain View where I worked was a 24 7 campus. So engineering focus, which means a lot of data rooms, data centers, you know, clean rooms, um, that sort of thing. So uptime and equipment was, was paramount. So it was sort of a trial by fire and sort of jumping in the deep end with regards to learning.
[00:03:03] John Davis: Um, you know, everything from a reach out refrigerator to a massive chiller system on a multi story building and everything in between. So Joe, where
[00:03:11] Jake Hall: did, where did you start your career? I mean, you worked on engines, you said when you were 10 years old, but what inspired you to really
[00:03:17] John Davis: get into this industry?
[00:03:19] John Davis: I think just having the mechanical aptitude from a kid. Um, I had an uncle who was, uh, Part of a motorcycle club in California and I sort of watched him work on motorcycles and cars and just every kind of piece of equipment you could imagine. So literally from the age of five or six understanding that mechanical equipment and having the aptitude to understand how things work.
[00:03:41] John Davis: But also, I was very interested in electronics and software. Uh, in high school, I was working on a lot of software projects, um, and electronics, you know, building stereos, doing things like that. So, understanding how electronics and mechanical systems can work together, um, obviously, eventually got me into the area of automation and the software side of it as well.
[00:04:05] John Davis: And so
[00:04:06] Jake Hall: when you graduated high school, what was your next step in education? Did you go do an apprenticeship? Did you just go right into the workforce? What did that look like?
[00:04:14] John Davis: So I did things a little differently. So I graduated a few months before the end of my sophomore year in high school. Um, and at the age of 15, then I started college at the age of 15, just from a local JC initially.
[00:04:28] John Davis: And then I eventually went on to work at a few different colleges. Secular University, and then some private colleges that dealt more in the electronics and robotics era. Uh, and you know, that was in sort of the mid to late eighties. So the, the robotics sector was really coming on strong, especially on the manufacturing side with regards to automotive, um, sector.
[00:04:50] John Davis: So once I, uh, sort of jumped deep in with regards to schooling, I had an opportunity of some microsystems, uh, when I was 17, actually. And, uh, so I moved all my classes to evening classes and again, I jumped into Sun and initially it was just sort of, you know, whatever needed to be done. As a matter of fact, my first project, the folks had just moved out of building one.
[00:05:12] John Davis: All the executives, Sun was really starting to gain momentum. They asked me to replace every single ceiling tile in the 65, 000 corporate building. So that was my, uh, welcome, if you will, at the age of 17, being sort of the, uh, The new kid on the block, quite literally. So, and from there, you know, Sun, Sun gave us a lot of opportunity for education.
[00:05:32] John Davis: Whether it was HVAC or, like I said, you know, um, the electrical side or electronics, whatever it was. Um, and then I eventually learned how to use Unix. And, uh, started porting over some of the automation systems that back then were DOS based. And porting those over to a Unix system. So they would run on the Sun network.
[00:05:52] John Davis: Uh, which was a government based network, you know, they were the only company at that time that was allowed to work on some of the government projects. So the things that we were doing, we could fork them over to literally a secure network and bring them anywhere.
[00:06:04] Jake Hall: When you step back and you think about that, what was like the one big thing that just got you excited?
[00:06:09] Jake Hall: About that with
[00:06:10] John Davis: your job, I'd say, you know, the bigger stuff, you know, the larger chiller, um, equipment, um, larger boilers. When you take in a massive piece of equipment that controls a very large area and manipulating it with literally just, you know, keystrokes on, on a keyboard, or even to the point where you could port it over to your phone in the very early days of using phone technology before, you know, the iPhones and everything came out.
[00:06:36] John Davis: That's pretty cool, uh, knowing that you can have that kind of effect, uh, from anywhere in the world on equipment, uh, and also be able to monitor it. You know, back then, being on call and having a two way pager and eventually a big old brick phone that you carried around, some was able to get into a lot of technology before the general public because of the government contracts.
[00:06:56] John Davis: So we had a lot of technology available to us that wasn't available to the general population. So we used that technology to monitor the uptime of the site to ensure that, you know, things ran 24 7. And with all of us being on call, especially myself, you know, it was unusual to put in, you know, 60, 80 hours a week just to make sure these sites are running.
[00:07:15] John Davis: So the better tech you had to monitor equipment, um, even back then it was, it was paramount. Absolutely.
[00:07:22] David Lee: Awesome. Yeah. So now that we know a little bit more about you, John, it's time for our first segment, the maintainer mashup. This is where we'll talk about the equipment, management, and teams, and find out how we can make maintenance more reliable.
[00:07:36] Jake Hall: Maintenance required.
[00:07:38] John Davis: Listen, I maintain. I maintain the most. Maintain course. Maintain speed.
[00:07:45] David Lee: I'm going to maintain respect. So can we hear a little bit more about American wood fibers specifically? Absolutely. And for those who don't know in the audience, American Wood Fiber is the nation's leader when it comes to producing wood shavings and wood flour.
[00:08:00] David Lee: So we can create fillers and extenders for multiple industries across the board. So tell us a little bit about American Wood Fiber.
[00:08:07] John Davis: Yeah, sure. So I've been there about eight years now, um, and I manage the Western U. S. The company really relies on sort of the secondary market with regards to wood byproducts.
[00:08:19] John Davis: So we utilize a lot of Um, byproducts that come off of large lumber mills and we purpose some of the shavings and, and sort of wood dust, if you will, that comes off it. And we've repurposed that into a bedding, uh, or wood pellets for barbecuing and, or heat bedding for multiple animals from, you know, horses all the way down to sort of small caged animals and things like that.
[00:08:42] John Davis: So it's, it's really trying to repurpose, um, byproduct that's available on the market. And specifically in California, especially in our Jamestown location, we repurpose a lot of the forest fire, fire material that's out there. Obviously, there's been a lot of fires in California in the past, you know, half dozen years, and a lot of that material does make its way down to the lumber mills, however.
[00:09:05] John Davis: Um, you know, it, it definitely gets compromised after six months or a year or so, and it's, it's no longer good for lumber. So we take that in and shave it down and repurpose it for various different products. And so, you know, it really helps with sort of the environmental impact, especially in California and trying to sort of get the, uh, reforestation going.
[00:09:25] Jake Hall: So the one thing that I'm thinking about, John, this is just from, from my experience, when I'm thinking shavings and I hear, you know, wood flour, I'm thinking of. Very fine particulate in a lot of areas. When we break down a fine particulate, a lot of times there's, you know, the safety involved with what I'm thinking of, you know, explosion proof, intrinsically safe stuff.
[00:09:46] Jake Hall: Can you talk more about just the experience that you have when it comes to focusing, you know, the time and energy into ADWF when it's growing? How do you ensure I guess you could say that all the processes are still running, you know, with, when it comes to like that preventative maintenance and making the machines are, you know, still safe and they're being efficient and they're being productive.
[00:10:07] Jake Hall: What does that look like?
[00:10:09] John Davis: Yeah. So we have obviously a lot of SOPs baked into the company, standard operating procedures. Um, you're right, it's, there's a lot of volatility in what we do, especially on the Um, where you have large silos and, and explosion, um, issues are definitely concern, fire is a concern at every one of our locations.
[00:10:29] John Davis: So it's paramount that safety is first in all of our locations, and of course, you know, part of the safety program is the work order program, the PM program, and ensuring that there's documentation and sort of structure around that. We really push the SOP, um, at all of our plants, um, they do vary quite a bit.
[00:10:48] John Davis: But I guess the most important thing is that they don't get staggered or stale. So as we find new technologies or we find better ways of doing things, or there's better equipment or better monitoring, we take advantage of that and we try to carry that over to all of our facilities, so. Um, as a company, we meet at least once a week with all of the senior management and discuss, you know, progress, issues, uh, updates, um, what are ways of doing things, um, you know, so we stay, we try to stay at least on, on sort of a cutting edge of what's available out there, how to do things, and then, um, if we do find an issue with a piece of equipment or the way something was installed, um, We do send out memos company wide to say, you know, this was addressed at this location and if your location has something similar, um, yeah, we may need to modify the SOP or, um, at least modify the safety standards.
[00:11:41] John Davis: So, we really do and try very hard to keep on top of all of these things by communication. Um, and obviously trying to use technology. Right.
[00:11:50] David Lee: So you touched on communication, uh, things like with these work orders and SLPs being shared and having this, uh, effectively seamless so everyone can utilize it, uh, in your company.
[00:12:01] David Lee: So to get there, typically speaking, there's going to be a slew of projects that need to take place, uh, to maybe it's upgrading a facility in some way or procedures, admin controls, or whatever that looks like. So can you tell us a little bit about, uh, maybe some previous projects that you've done and then some, maybe some future projects that have been impactful, uh, because we'd love to hear about that from you specifically, as you have a lot under your
[00:12:25] John Davis: belt.
[00:12:26] John Davis: Yeah, sure. Um, as a company, again, we're looking for new technology. So if there's a safer way of doing things, you know, we kiln dry a lot of our products, which, you know, can be inherently dangerous. Um, so we're always looking, we've installed new drying systems, uh, new technology that's come out, and we're looking abroad, you know, we, we look throughout, you know, Asia and Europe for technologies that are, that are available and maybe something different.
[00:12:48] John Davis: And we've utilized those in, in, in projects, uh, in the past. Again, the, the drying side of things, we've looked at lower temperature drying, so that you're not dealing with high temperatures and, and, you know, um, so it creates sort of a less of a safety issue. We're looking at expansion over our plants, whether it's expanding the footprint of what we shave or even products that we bring in.
[00:13:10] John Davis: Historically, we don't really focus on the wood byproducts, but, um, in recent years, we've got into the paper byproducts as well. So, utilizing, um, you know, paper that's out there, like, for instance, filters on a, uh, coffee cup or a coffee cake cup. There's a lot of by product that comes out of punching those out, so we're looking at repurposing that into bidding as well, and we've done that in some work plan expansion.
[00:13:35] John Davis: But, uh, the paramount side of this is, is the safety side, so no matter what product lines we take on, or expansion on existing product lines, it's doing it, um, at a very high level with regards to safety. So, if that's putting in fire protection, or if that's putting in monitoring, or if that's putting in additional safety people to, to sort of address these different locations, then that's, that's part of it as well.
[00:13:58] John Davis: I think it's great
[00:13:58] Jake Hall: how If you're addressing a really big sustainable problem, you know, when it comes to like, is manufacturing have an impact on sustainability? And here's a great example of how much recycled product that you're using to then, you know, I guess you could say, create more value out of it.
[00:14:14] Jake Hall: I think that's just what makes manufacturing so. Incredible. So what I want to do is move into the second segment, which is more focused on what is in your individual tool.
[00:14:25] David Lee: We're going to fix it. Get the
[00:14:26] John Davis: tool. Pick the one right tool. The right tool for the right job.
[00:14:35] Jake Hall: We're talking about how you guys are growing.
[00:14:37] Jake Hall: We're talking about how you're creating, you know, and improving SOP and how you're improving safety. But really what I want to focus now is. How are you doing your best to manage change on the floor? I think change is always a big thing if it's either through growth or it's through leadership. Can you talk about what you've seen in your career on how success is created through change?
[00:14:59] Jake Hall: And maybe in areas where change has fallen short in the expectation.
[00:15:03] John Davis: Yeah, sure. So, I mean, change can certainly be difficult, um, especially if it's large change. So, you know, managing it effectively is a big deal. I'll give you an example. I did a project, uh, years ago for IBM, and it was a massive change to their operation.
[00:15:19] John Davis: It was at the time that their, their primary location, their corporate headquarters in the Bay Area. Um, and we were doing a large project, um, in automating their chiller plant. Um, and it was actually one of the first neural networks I ever worked on. This is in the late nineties. And it was quite a large chiller plant, 24, 000 tons.
[00:15:36] John Davis: And it had been operated the same way for 25, 30 years. And, and the tenure of the average mechanic was probably around that same time frame. Um, so coming in and completely automate or completely changing how something operates to make it more efficient. Especially on a scale of that size can be daunting by the folks that have been there for quite some time and doing it the same way for years and years.
[00:16:00] John Davis: You know, the attitude could be that, look, it's worked this way for a lot of years and we've done a good job, so why change it? So, when you're going in, but you know, we were looking at saving them 20 25 percent in their utility costs by making it a more efficient operation. So eventually we went in and did some very high level automation and put in some neural network controls so we would learn over time based on weather patterns and some other things.
[00:16:24] John Davis: But the, the most important thing is before the project even started, we did a high level of, uh, training, um, with the folks there to really get them on board before, uh, you know, the first wrench turn, before the first drill came out, before we did anything, um, we got everybody on board as to what this would look like when it was all said and done and the fact that they were going to be comfortable utilizing the technology when it was all said and done and that went a long ways because if you don't get an early adoption for the folks that are going to be left with whatever you do, It could be all for naught or you're going to have some extreme pushback.
[00:16:59] John Davis: So again, the communications, the training, um, sort of trying to convey technology, new technology to people can be difficult, but if you take the time early on and sort of, you know, talk in their language, it will go a long way versus just dictating something and installing it and saying here, you know, here's what you're left with.
[00:17:16] John Davis: So, um, that's an example of, you know, a very large project and an extreme change to an operation. You know, when you're talking about a campus of that size that literally has its own streetlights, you know, it's, it's, it's just massive. So, um, it, it can be scary for folks. For sure.
[00:17:34] David Lee: Now, when it comes to these type projects, as you mentioned, uh, change is, it's always going to be a challenge, right?
[00:17:41] David Lee: You have so much experience, you're able to overcome this. Uh, now, have you had any experience where There was a clear need, but you ran into, whether it be approval walls or any sort of challenges like that, that you weren't able to overcome or you didn't expect to overcome. And then maybe later you learned some new lessons on how to do that more challenging type situations.
[00:18:02] John Davis: Yeah, sure. So I think generally speaking, there's been pushback on new technology, especially because of initial costs. If you look at most technology change and equipment change, there's a huge upfront cost. And that could be a tough pill to swallow, whether it's at the CFO level or any other level within the company.
[00:18:21] John Davis: When I had my own automation company, um, ROI is a big deal, right? So you have to, you have to be able to explain what the return on an investment will be, um, both financially and technically. So if you're trying to sell to a CFO, but also trying to sell to the maintenance manager, that they're not going to be stuck with the system that they can't use at the end of the day.
[00:18:42] John Davis: Those are two very different conversations that you have to have. And, you know, maybe you get buy off at the CFO level that DROI makes sense. It's, you know, 1. 5 year payback. That looks great. But on the technical side, maybe the maintenance manager or the operations manager has some trepidation about the technology and whether or not they're comfortable in using that technology to run that site.
[00:19:06] John Davis: And I've gotten pushback from both those areas, right? Sometimes one gives you sign off, the other doesn't. And, you know, sometimes it's cost, sometimes it's technical. So I think being able to speak both those languages to both those different groups of people is paramount so that you get understanding and buy up.
[00:19:22] John Davis: Now it doesn't always work out that way, but you know, sometimes you come back a year or two later and maybe the technology's changed or maybe the costs have come down on that technology and then it, maybe it's more palatable at that point in time. Um, but I think you have to have the patience and understanding to know your audience and your audience.
[00:19:38] John Davis: Whether it's, whether it's a customer of mine or I am the customer to an internal company, I think the communication is similar. You know, sometimes companies can be scared to spend money on projects where you don't know if the outcome is going to be beneficial or not. Absolutely.
[00:19:55] Jake Hall: Well, I would say let's jump into our third segment, the future of factories, where we'll cover the new trends that we're seeing across the industry or what we want to see look like ahead.
[00:20:06] David Lee: Meet the future! To our futures. What
[00:20:09] John Davis: future? The factory. My factory. Everybody's
[00:20:12] David Lee: factory. I love your
[00:20:13] John Davis: factory. My factory, my
[00:20:16] Jake Hall: laws. John, you've seen a lot of different industries that you've been a part of with your experience. And I think one of the biggest things that you can share is just the generational change that you've seen in our industries.
[00:20:29] Jake Hall: Can you talk more about your experience as what I call, you know, being A veteran in this industry, what we need to do to get the next generations on board in this industry as well and get them excited about what we're doing.
[00:20:42] John Davis: Sure. So it's clear that the last two generations have been sort of more computer minded than the previous.
[00:20:49] John Davis: And, you know, I think a lot of the things that I've done in my career were maybe a generation or even two ahead of their time, especially with some of the automation in the eighties and moving into the nineties. We were trying to put things on the web in the early nineties, mid nineties. Um, the things that are sort of taken for granted today, you can do just about anything from your phone, right?
[00:21:08] John Davis: You can sit on the couch with your phone and turn on the lights, you can monitor things halfway across the world and all the way across the world. So I think you have to understand what today's technology is with this current generation, especially as we're hiring folks in today's market. Um, you know, some of our mills, we have really tough jobs, right?
[00:21:27] John Davis: So they're not the easiest jobs, they're not the most glamorous. But if there's a technology spin on that job, for instance, you know, we have packaging lines who will rebale our product or repalletize our product. Um, in the past, you know, four or five years or even more, we've automated quite a bit of that.
[00:21:43] John Davis: We put in robotics, put in automated pallet stacking, we put in, you know, automated baling systems. And there are, you know, for the most part, all PLC things with interfaces to the web. Um, and most of them do have some sort of app that you can look at. So, knowing that you might be doing a top position, but part of it is sort of a very high tech piece as well.
[00:22:04] John Davis: Um, it goes a long way, especially when you're interviewing new candidates of a younger generation. Um, the fact that we can, you know, we've got tablets, you know, we've got our maintenance people, you know, they have their maintenance cards. They've just, oh, they've all got tablets. So with those tablets, they can maintain and monitor equipment, express through some of the new technologies and traction.
[00:22:22] John Davis: But they can have a view into their world that they may have not had, you know, that many years ago. So I, I think that's, uh, imperative in this generation that you have that technology, you have sort of that correspondence to what they're doing on a day to day basis on their phone, whether it's social media or whatever.
[00:22:41] John Davis: The fact that we're using some of the latest technology in maybe an older type of, you know, vertical market. Um, I think shows that we're trying to keep up with the times, and that goes a long way. Especially, it's so hard to hire people nowadays, so you have to have something. Again, they're maybe not the most glamorous jobs, but if there's a technical spin to it, I think that, that goes a long way.
[00:23:03] Jake Hall: Would you say that when you put in that automated equipment, those end of line robots, or even just, you know, having, it sounds like you might have some basics level of a SCADA system or, you know, digital, digital display of what, you know, your OEE is running on those machines, would you say that that's attracting or that's making, bringing new generations into those jobs easier?
[00:23:25] John Davis: Sure, it's twofold. Uh, we do have a lot of digital feedback, so we've got display boards that are showing, you know, widgets per hour, we have display boards that are showing out time, we have a lot of this that's in your face, it's, it's both, uh, appealing to the person that's working on it because you get real time feedback, But it's also accountability.
[00:23:44] John Davis: It's an immediate accountability as well, right? So, um, anybody can see how they're doing or how they're not doing or how a peer is doing. Um, and then we can also run, you know, statistics between shifts. We run three shifts at most of our clients or a lot of them. Um, so you have sort of this soft competition between shifts about performance and uptime and, you know, widgets produced.
[00:24:06] John Davis: So it really does create sort of an environment where, um, people are engaged with what's happening. It's not like you're just going in and putting your eight hours. You have no idea how the plant's doing or how you do during. Everybody has pretty much real time feedback as to what was accomplished, how, what was accomplished during the week, the month, the year, how we're trending.
[00:24:26] John Davis: So putting those tools into place, um, I think is good because the more communication people feel more engaged in their, in their job and their role.
[00:24:34] David Lee: Right. And you touched on something a moment ago, you mentioned traction and a few of the different facets that you just talked about, uh, really having that visibility and things, uh, and that shareability and that situational awareness.
[00:24:47] David Lee: Out of all these different, uh, I would say goals, what is your specific reason for utilizing traction, for example, and what are your hopes, uh, when it comes to the enterprise goals for the next
[00:24:57] John Davis: year or two doing that? I think to, you know, eliminate silly mistakes and or find the low hanging fruit, you know, people get very busy in their day to day life and, and especially on the maintenance side.
[00:25:08] John Davis: Um, you can get mired in, in just sort of doing a stack of PMs or dealing with the work orders. So, it's important to do them in, in a fashion that's smart. And that was kind of the appeal attraction, um, is that we can look at what our loading frame is on any given minute, any given day. Um, when they come in the morning, they can see in real time how the systems are running or not running, as the case may be.
[00:25:32] John Davis: And that sort of sets your priority for the day, right? I mean, if you are going to be, you know, changing the oil in something that's not very high priority, but yet now you see you got a bearing, maybe vibrating or a motor that's getting hot or something that you would never notice on your own. And now all of a sudden you're directed and focused into an area that's an informing report and then, you know, maybe a routine oil change on a piece of equipment.
[00:25:53] John Davis: So I think. You know, directing folks in a smart way to the areas of interest that make most sense throughout the day is paramount, especially like I said, most of our sites are running multiple shifts a day, um, you know, and five or six days a week. So with that amount of runtime, you know, sometimes you don't always have the appropriate amount of time to get every PM done or every work order done, but you certainly need to get the ones that make the most impact done and keep those sites running.
[00:26:24] John Davis: Um, and when you're looking at a manufacturing site where, you know, everything's counted on, you know, widgets per minute, per hour, per week, downtime is very meaningful and also part of the tracking system allows us to track that downtime, to track the cost of that downtime. Um, and if we're being smarter about where we're focusing our efforts, you know, not everybody has every single mechanic they want or maintenance person, so.
[00:26:45] John Davis: Um, you're, you're dealing with sort of the level of ops that you have. You want to make sure that they're most engaged to the areas that they should be and sort of not, not dealing with something that's routine when you have something that's priority at that time. I guess it's the best way. And all of those areas were checked off by traction and certainly, and then maybe moving into the CMMS side of it as well, um, being able to integrate those two things.
[00:27:08] John Davis: Um, so that you have real time work order generation, you have real time sort of PM generation based on actual run hours and things like that versus just sort of a guesstimate. So that's all very, very valuable. Yeah,
[00:27:20] David Lee: absolutely. And it's amazing to really think about that point, right, where This is actually helping the plant, obviously, but it's also helping the lives of the individuals who are working in the plant and doing this maintenance work.
[00:27:31] David Lee: And so we're looking at higher levels of retention, but also with the newer generation being so, um, being the types that really were born with technology, then they're going to be more interested in doing these type jobs and things as they become more high tech oriented. So One question for you, as we touched on this, but also the next generation, would you have any advice, let's say you were talking to yourself back when you were 15 years old, you know, you wanted to be a, a guy that was involved in hands on type work.
[00:28:04] David Lee: Uh, but also you learned that you're, you're good with automation and, and, and things like that. What would you tell yourself about the future of factories and where you would, uh, what you would take as actions to get to your future? Any sort of advice like that? Sure.
[00:28:17] John Davis: Well, um, I guess I'll probably hate you myself, but back then, you know, we didn't have the ability, you didn't have the internet quite frankly.
[00:28:24] John Davis: So when you were doing your research, it was literally service manuals or just trying to go to the library and pull out what you could. You know, nowadays, everything's at your fingertips. So, it's a lot easier not to make the same mistakes as people have done in the past, right? So, you can go out and do a lot of research, you know.
[00:28:41] John Davis: I've talked about different books, but, you know, one of the books I've read is Car Guys vs. Bean Cowers. Uh, Bob Lutz, um, who ran GM for a while and he's actually, he was at Chrysler and some other, he was brought out of inventory and he wrote this book, um, to help GM out in, in the early 2000s. GM in the late 80s, early 90s was trying to compete with a lot of the Japanese manufacturing processes which were highly automated.
[00:29:04] John Davis: And they, they dove in head first in the 90s, um, especially with the Saturn division. And it was an epic failure. They were going to just automate the whole process of the car and stamping out plastic parts. And they were just going to make these things so fast that in profits, we're going to shoot to the roof.
[00:29:21] John Davis: The opposite ended up happening. The quality went down, um, you know, and it sort of. The attention to detail went down and, you know, automation is great as long as you can manage what you automate, how you automate it, and if you go overboard. And quite frankly, if you don't have the people who know how to operate the automation post installation, then you could really shoot yourself in the foot.
[00:29:44] John Davis: And, and that's happened with a lot of manufac action out here. I just wrote Elon's book here recently. You know, he's got a lot of just genius ideas, but trying to make those ideas to replicate themselves in, in, in the form of manufacturing, whether it's a car or a spaceship or whatever it might be, um, or just, you know, a shaving spale.
[00:30:03] John Davis: It's sort of all the same processes to, you know, how do we get from point A to point B, do it reliably, do it safely. Um, uh, and do it consistently. Those are trivial things, right? You know, a lot of people come up with a lot of great ideas about a product, but trying to manufacture a product in those, in those manners, uh, is difficult and to do it consistently is difficult because when you're manufacturing the same thing potentially over and over and over, you can get sort of agnostic to the process, you can get callous to it.
[00:30:32] John Davis: So, you know, using better technology to, you know, understand what you're doing, how you're doing it, is it still the most efficient as you were doing it five years ago? Should it be more efficient? You know, just sort of constantly bettering yourself, and again, there's a lot of information, especially with AI out there today, you know, and like traction is certainly using that technology.
[00:30:53] John Davis: There's a lot more, I guess, tools that you can put in your tool bag nowadays that you need to capture and you need to utilize.
[00:31:00] David Lee: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, those are, uh, those are very wise words and totally appreciate that. So Before, uh, we say goodbye to John, it's time for our final segment, the Fix It Funnies.
[00:31:13] David Lee: Fix it in. It's making a really funny noise. Alright, fix it. Make it funny would be great, if you could make it funny. Your fate is fixed. So make it funny. Make sure it's funny. Alright, so, John, with the new year upon us. Uh, what are your biggest plans for next year and things that you're
[00:31:30] John Davis: looking forward to?
[00:31:31] John Davis: Well, I'm sure by, uh, next spring, I'll be looking forward to the snow melting so I can, uh, dig out and, but, uh, you know, on the, on the business side, I, you know, I'm looking forward to some of the new technologies. You know, we just started working with traction here and I'm looking forward to the rollout to more of our sites.
[00:31:48] John Davis: I'm looking forward to seeing how AI It is really going to immerse itself in, in this vertical on our, in our business line and utilize the right technology. I mean, there's big changes. We've seen a lot of big changes between generations. This is a, this is a huge one, right? So trying to better how you produce, um, a product, um, using sort of more intelligence that, Is beyond the four walls of your facility is, is, is a big deal in educating the folks that you do have on how to utilize those technologies so that you're bringing them up to a higher level as well.
[00:32:22] John Davis: Um, that's a big deal. Um, so I do look forward to that. And I think it's going to be more engaging with the employees. And I think employee retention that you mentioned earlier, which is a huge problem with, within every industry right now, um, that's going to be a big deal for retention as well as is.
[00:32:40] John Davis: Getting them engaged into the daily operation in a more meaningful way. Absolutely. Awesome. So,
[00:32:46] Jake Hall: John, if you weren't able to be a part of the manufacturing industry and what you're doing now with your current job, what industry would you want to be in? What other profession would you want to be a part of?
[00:32:59] John Davis: Good question. Um, I'd say, given the current landscape, sort of anything in the AI space and understanding that, I did my first Dell network more than 20 years ago, I'm really dating myself, but in the late 90s, you know, um, building the first thing that sort of could learn. And getting it to work was a huge, huge project.
[00:33:21] John Davis: I mean, it took, you know, multiple years and a lot of costs back then. Um, it paid out, but being in that space, I'd say today in this world is, is exciting. Uh, beyond that, I'd probably be building cars or motorcycles or something like that. Maybe it doesn't pay the bills in the same matter, but, uh, yeah, those are definitely a couple of the areas that are of interest.
[00:33:46] John Davis: Nice.
[00:33:47] David Lee: Are you looking at any sort of specific content right now, whether it be podcasts? You did mention books, uh, but maybe Netflix specials, anything that kind of appeals to, I would say, our, uh, maintenance and engineering personality type. Um, yeah,
[00:34:01] John Davis: podcasts are a big one, you know, I listen to quite a few, um, and I recently listened to, uh, to Sam Altman and Elon and guys like that.
[00:34:09] John Davis: And it, you know, um, you know, Sam obviously on the AI side, but Elon more on the manufacturing side. I mean, he's brilliant as the guys he is, you know, you come up with all these grandiose ideas and, and, um, being able to actually make something more than once and do it over and over in a quality way. It's a big deal, and that really lends itself obviously to what we do, uh, not maybe on the same level, but, you know, it's just the idea of, of That context, um, is meaningful.
[00:34:39] John Davis: And so for that reason, yeah. So I, I follow some of those folks who are sort of doing the latest and greatest right now, and, uh, there's been a lot of buzz on a lot of podcasts recently with those folks. And so I tend to watch that quite a bit. Awesome.
[00:34:52] David Lee: Yeah. Same here. Definitely following all the same content that you are.
[00:34:56] David Lee: So, uh,
[00:34:56] Jake Hall: great. All right. With all the years and decades of experience under your belt, you know, if you were to go back and work on one machine again,
[00:35:05] John Davis: what would that be? Yeah, that's hard, that's hard to pin down because I'm sure there's been tens of thousands of pieces of the machinery, besides the obvious, which are machines that get you from point A to point B very fast, which my own cars and motorcycles, uh, those are my favorite by far.
[00:35:20] John Davis: But I would probably go back to the IBM project. I don't think I've ever worked on machines of that size ever. Uh, we're probably never will again. That project was probably the most impactful project that I've ever worked on just from a scale perspective. And, uh, you don't get an opportunity to work on things that large, um, very often.
[00:35:39] John Davis: I mean, to give you an example, you know, when you change the setting on one of the chillers, it took 45 minutes to see the reaction. That's how big the chiller loop was. I mean, it was just a massive 36 inch pipe that basically went through an entire city before the war. So, you know, being able to have predictive analysis and tell that machine how to operate most effectively based on something that hasn't happened yet, like a building loading up or the temperature changing outside, but knowing what might happen and sort of being smart about telling it what it should do, um, is kind of a big deal and, and sort of very, very early AI.
[00:36:14] John Davis: So I'd say in my career, that was something that was at least 20 years ahead of its time. So it's kind of nice to see it happening in real time today.
[00:36:23] David Lee: That's right. We finally got to that, uh, crystal ball effect with AI. A little bit. Yeah. Awesome. So, John, thanks again for coming to our show. It has been absolutely wonderful to have you.
[00:36:33] David Lee: And for everyone else, this has been The Maintainers, a Bluecap Community Podcast. Be sure to subscribe wherever you get your different podcasts as we're on most major platforms. This concludes our Season 1. Thank you all for joining us throughout 2023. Stay tuned for Season 2 coming in 2024. We look forward to seeing you again soon.
[00:36:53] David Lee: This
[00:36:54] John Davis: podcast
[00:36:56] Voiceover: is brought to you by Traction. Traction offers streamlined hardware and software solutions designed to make maintenance more reliable and profitable. Their AI powered condition monitoring and asset management solution predicts machine failures and unplanned downtime, allowing clients to save an average of 10 million every trimester.
[00:37:16] Voiceover: It's artificial intelligence quarterbacking your maintenance.